{"id":3827,"date":"2017-10-23T00:32:53","date_gmt":"2017-10-23T07:32:53","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/?p=3827"},"modified":"2018-01-16T18:01:28","modified_gmt":"2018-01-17T02:01:28","slug":"secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success","title":{"rendered":"The Secret to Viet Thanh Nguyen\u2019s Overnight Success"},"content":{"rendered":"

In this phone interview for Electric Lit<\/a>, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen’s recent success.<\/em><\/p>\n

\"Viet
Viet Thanh Nguyen, author of The Sympathizer and The Refugees<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

<\/h1>\n

The novelist seemed to go from unknown to MacArthur genius in two years. In truth, it took decades.<\/h1>\n

This month, the novelist Viet Thanh Nguyen was awarded one of the most prestigious honors a writer can receive: the MacArthur \u201cgenius\u201d grant, given to artists, thinkers, and public intellectuals whose ideas have\u00a0culture-altering potential<\/span>. This, in itself, should surprise no one. Nguyen writes with arresting moral and intellectual force, often about people scarred and uprooted by conflict. As the MacArthur Foundation put it in its\u00a0citation<\/a>, Nguyen\u2019s demonstrated a unique gift for exploring how depictions of the Vietnam War \u201coften fail to capture the full humanity and inhumanity, the sacrifices and savagery, of participants on opposing sides.\u201d<\/p>\n

But the MacArthur is just the latest in an astonishing run of literary successes, one that makes it easy to forget a simple fact: A mere 18 months ago, Nguyen was still unknown as a fiction writer. His career began quickly, and seemingly out of nowhere, in April 2015\u200a\u2014\u200awhen a rave on the cover of\u00a0The New York Times Book Review<\/em>\u00a0made his debut novel,\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em><\/a>, one of the year\u2019s most-discussed books. Shortly after that,\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em>\u00a0won the 2016 Pulitzer Prize in fiction, bringing Nguyen international fame. Since then, he\u2019s stayed busy, publishing two celebrated books in short succession: a work of nonfiction cultural criticism,\u00a0Nothing Ever Dies: Vietnam and the Memory of War<\/em><\/a>, and a short story collection,\u00a0The Refugees<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n

But Nguyen is no overnight sensation\u200a\u2014\u200afar from it. In this interview, he opens up about a period of his life that\u2019s been mostly overlooked: the two decades he spent trying, and mostly failing, to write fiction, working in secret while he juggled a host of other responsibilities. We discussed the 20 years of work that preceded his debut, the challenges he faced along the way, and\u200a\u2014\u200awhen it seemed his literary ambitions would never quite materialize\u200a\u2014\u200athe strategies he used to keep going.<\/p>\n

Viet Thanh Nguyen and I first spoke in 2015, discussing how he stumbled on\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em>\u2019s first sentence, an opening that finally allowed him to complete the rest of the book. That conversation appears in\u00a0Light the Dark: Writers on Creativity, Inspiration, and the Artistic Process<\/em><\/a>, published this fall by Penguin Books. He teaches at the University of Southern California, and spoke to me by phone.<\/p>\n

—<\/p>\n

Joe Fassler: Your public life as a novelist has really only been about two years long\u200a\u2014\u200abut I\u2019ve read in interviews that writing fiction was important to you for many years before that. Tell me about your private life as a fiction writer.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Viet Thanh Nguyen: I started writing fiction semi-seriously when I was in college. But I felt I was a better scholar than a fiction writer, so I decided to pursue academia and graduate school. I thought that I would write fiction on the side and when I got tenure, I\u2019d concentrate on the fiction more fully.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s not quite how things turned out. It took me 20 years to learn how to be a writer, and part of that was because I was also being an academic at the same time. It was very much a long-term act of trying to balance both of these sides of myself\u200a\u2014\u200adealing not only with the demands of the art, but also with the petty world of ego and human vanity. I simply wasn\u2019t making as much progress as quickly as I wanted on the fiction, and that was hard.<\/p>\n

JF: How did you actually make time for your creative work, given the demands of full-time teaching and academic work?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: Well, I\u2019m very fortunate that I\u2019ve had a very tolerant partner for most of that time. The reality was that there was very little free time, because academia is obviously a full-time job, and then writing had to come on top of that. I wouldn\u2019t say that writing was\u00a0another<\/em>\u00a0full-time job, but it consumed a lot of hours.<\/p>\n

During the summers, I\u2019d have enough free time that I could writer. But during the semester, I would probably do some work on the weekend, and whenever I had free time\u200a\u2014\u200awhen I wasn\u2019t grading midterms, for example. During the teaching periods, I never got to write every day. I would only get to write every once in a while. The luxury of writing every day was not something I had the discipline to do.<\/p>\n

It really wasn\u2019t until I had writing residencies that I could write full-time. The first time that ever happened to me was not until 2004, when I did a fellowship at the Fire Arts Work Center in Provincetown. Then I really got to know what it meant to be a full-time writer, and it was a really difficult experience.<\/p>\n

JF: I imagine that kind of pure, unstructured time was the opportunity you\u2019d always been waiting for. But you\u2019re saying it was difficult?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: Very difficult. Up until that time, I\u2019d been writing in the margins of my life\u200a\u2014\u200alonging, just longing for the moment when I could write full-time. As a result, I was also completely unrealistic about my abilities. Up until that moment, I\u2019d been thinking:\u00a0oh, I\u2019m actually a pretty good writer. I just need that chance. If I could just be full-time for a while, I can finish this book of short stories that I\u2019m writing<\/em>.<\/p>\n

So I got the chance. But Provincetown was a disaster. Finally, after all that time, I could write eight hours a day\u200a\u2014\u200aand the outcome was completely bad. Number one, I was forced to confront the fact that I had a completed inflated sense of my own abilities. Number two, I was forced to confront the difficult reality that I had\u00a0much<\/em>\u00a0more work to do before I could become even a competent writer.<\/p>\n

That year was supposed to be the wonderful moment in my creative life up until that point, and it turned out to be the worst moment. And I realized that I faced a choice: I could give up on being a writer, or I could decide to persist. I decided to persist, and I think that was the moment that I really started becoming a writer. It was the process of overcoming those unrealistic expectations, of buckling down and spending another decade writing, that was really transformative.<\/p>\n

\n

“I realized that I faced a choice: I could give up on being a writer, or I could decide to\u00a0persist.”<\/h3>\n<\/blockquote>\n

JF: After that humbling experience at Provincetown, did you change anything about your schedule, your mindset, or your approach to writing?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: Well, two things. One, I did change my approach to writing. I realized that I can\u2019t write eight hours a day, which is what I was trying to do. The next time I had a long stretch of time to write, I only gave myself\u00a0four<\/em>\u00a0hours a day. That was the right amount of time. There\u2019s something about writing that, to me, is much more exhausting than office work, for example, or academic work, which I can do eight hours a day or more. For me, four hours seems to be the right amount.<\/p>\n

I think it was Hemingway who said he\u2019d stop writing when he reached a good moment\u200a\u2014\u200astop when you feel happy with the day\u2019s work, and when you\u2019re in the middle of a sentence or a paragraph while you still have an idea of what\u2019s going to take place next. And resume the next day. That\u2019s great advice, and I took it to heart.<\/p>\n

The other thing I learned is that, for me, part of being a writer is about endurance. The ability to withstand rejection, and neglect, and obscurity, and all of that. I really began to learn that for real in Provincetown, because up until then I could imagine that I was an academic. There was a reason I wasn\u2019t getting my creative work done, and I had all these excuses lined up for why I wasn\u2019t writing more.<\/p>\n

But after Provincetown, there was no excuse. That whole decade following that, right up until\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em>\u00a0was published, was about learning how to endure, just living with the art itself. Just trying to be faithful to the art, and believing that if I took as long as I needed to take, something good would come out of it. I learned I could not force myself to, let\u2019s say, write the book within a year, simply because I wanted that success. It wasn\u2019t going to happen.<\/p>\n

JF: Still, it must have been hard at that point to have your career be so lopsided: your academic credentials greatly outweighed your creative accomplishments, even if your heart was really with your fiction. How difficult was that for you, emotionally, during the long period in which you wrote your novel?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: It was hard, because I was successful in my academic career and I knew exactly what to do to maintain that. I could have just stayed with that, you know? But then, because I decided to devote much more time to writing fiction, it meant that both of my careers were developing at an equally slow pace. On the academic side, I could see other people moving far ahead of me, and that was distressing. On the fiction side, I thought that I was moving too slowly\u200a\u2014\u200aI felt I would never have the time to get a book published.<\/p>\n

It was difficult enough just to learn how to write. But also, because I\u2019m a petty human being, I was concerned about whether or not my efforts would have any kind of material outcome. What if I spent 10 or 20 years doing this, and I could still not get a book published, and then both my careers would be a disaster? Just trying to live with that possibility, and trying to have faith that I could do this, was really very challenging.<\/p>\n

\n

“What if I spent 10 or 20 years doing this, and I could still not get a book published, and then both my careers would be a disaster?”<\/h3>\n<\/blockquote>\n

JF: Considering how badly things went at Provincetown, and what an ongoing struggle the work was, what made you stick with it? What kept you from giving up?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: Occasionally I would get some recognition. I did sell a story when I was in Provincetown; from there, every year or two, I\u2019d sell a short story or something. So small rewards came in little bursts. They didn\u2019t happen very often, and they didn\u2019t bring very much money or renown, but it was enough to keep me going.<\/p>\n

Besides that, I think it was just sheer stubbornness, and the willingness to just work. For me, writing is about just sitting in a room, looking at the computer screen\u200a\u2014\u200ano music, no window, just a blank wall. It\u2019s a grind, but there was something in me that could endure all of that. I don\u2019t know where it comes from. I do think a lot of it comes from my parents. I grew up watching them work 12 to 14 hours a day without relief.<\/p>\n

While what I do as a writer is nowhere near as physically taxing as what they endured, I think that I learned lessons from them about just persevering, just putting one foot in front of the other, and hoping that would take you somewhere far, eventually.<\/p>\n

JF: I don\u2019t know about your parents\u2019 work\u200a\u2014\u200atell me more about that.<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: They ran a grocery store for a decade during the key years of my youth. It was a brutal experience, physically brutal, but also very violent because of crime that you have to endure as a small business owner in a working-class neighborhood. It was very tough for me to watch them do that. While I never wanted to do anything like that, I certainly looked to their model of sacrifice.<\/p>\n

I think being a writer very much involves sacrifice. Let\u2019s say you use Malcom Gladwell\u2019s figure, the 10,000 hours he\u2019s said you have to work before you can learn to do something well. (I recently I had to count all the hours I spent in that early period for a sake of my accountant\u200a\u2014\u200aand 10,000 hours was about what it came out to, disbursed over 15 or 20 years.) That means you have to give up 10,000 hours of your life, which could be much more productively used for your career, or for just entertainment and pleasure. The challenging thing is that there\u2019s no guarantee those 10,000 hours are going to lead to anything whatsoever, besides what is meaningful personally.<\/p>\n

JF: We first spoke in 2015, shortly after\u00a0The Sympathizer\u00a0<\/em>was published, but before the book was awarded the Pulitzer. You explained how you came upon the novel\u2019s open sentence, a breakthrough moment in a long, arduous process, one that helped you finally understand the novel\u2019s tone and terms. Where were you in the process when you at last wrote that all-important first line?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: I knew when I set out to write the novel that the opening was really important\u200a\u2014\u200athat it would set the tone for the entire novel. And so, immediately after I wrote the outline for the novel (which is only two pages), I set about trying to figure out the opening scene and what that opening line would be. It took me, I think, pretty much the entire summer of 2011, which is when I started writing\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em>.<\/p>\n

It took all summer, but when I finally got that opening sentence, I wrote to a friend\u200a\u2014\u200awho, besides my partner, was the only person I was talking to about the novel. \u201cI\u2019ve got it,\u201d I said. \u201cI\u2019ve got this opening line.\u201d And I was right. The voice and rhythm of that line drove the entire book.<\/p>\n

JF: We all know how this story ends: You finished the novel, and published it to great acclaim. But there\u2019s no way you could have known that outcome then. Let\u2019s just say it went the other way, as it does for so many writers\u200a\u2014\u200aeven deserving one. Let\u2019s say\u00a0The Sympathizer<\/em>\u00a0had sat, instead, in your drawer. Do you think you would have been content with the sacrifices you\u2019d made anyway?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: I\u2019m not the right person to ask, in some ways\u200a\u2014\u200abecause I did get rewarded for my work. It\u2019s hard for me to put myself in a hypothetical situation where these things didn\u2019t happen to me. The last 18 months have been crazy, and mind-boggling, but they\u2019ve obviously made the last 20 years totally worth it.<\/p>\n

But if my reality had turned out differently, if I never got a book published, would it have been worthwhile? I like to think that it would have been. Writing is only partially about the external rewards of publishing a book\u200a\u2014\u200aeven only partially about the external manifestation of the book itself.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a spiritual dimension to it, I think. If someone finds it necessary to write, then it\u2019s worth the sacrifice. By the way, that\u2019s why I tell people: If you\u00a0don\u2019t<\/em>\u00a0find it necessary to write, you shouldn\u2019t do it. This is not something that you want to voluntarily embark on because you think it\u2019s going to be fun, or cool, or anything like that. It has to come out of some deep need.<\/p>\n

If it\u2019s coming out of that deep need, then the sacrifice will be worth it\u200a\u2014\u200abecause, I think, through the act of writing, you learn something about yourself. The whole idea about spirituality being necessary as a way of disciplining yourself, and separating yourself from the world of tempting vanities that is so tempting: I think that applies to writing as well. Even writing that doesn\u2019t lead to a material outcome.<\/p>\n

\n

“This is not something that you want to voluntarily embark on because you think it\u2019s going to be fun, or cool, or anything like that. It has to come out of some deep\u00a0need.”<\/h3>\n<\/blockquote>\n

JF: So what was it that made it worth it for you, then? Before the publication came, before the book\u2019s success?<\/strong><\/p>\n

VTN<\/strong>: I think that if I hadn\u2019t become a writer, I would\u2019ve done something else that would\u2019ve required that discipline. I would have been a fanatical gardener, or a fanatical cook, or something like that. For those of us who become writers, we have that trait within ourselves\u200a\u2014\u200athis desire to master something. A desire to try to become an expert at something through the art\u200a\u2014\u200asomething somehow related to what we feel, and what we need spiritually.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s a lifelong endeavor. I think that, even if I hadn\u2019t somehow gotten a book published in the last few years, I would\u2019ve kept at it. You know, there are these stories of writers who don\u2019t get published until they\u2019re in their 50s, or 60s, or 70s. Sometimes, that\u2019s the reality of things.<\/p>\n

Of course, I hope my career isn\u2019t finished. And if it isn\u2019t, there will be future tests of my spirit, and my soul, and everything else still ahead\u200a\u2014\u200awhole different set of tests than what I\u2019ve already been through. I have to believe that I can face those as well.<\/p>\n

—<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In this phone interview for Electric Lit, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen’s recent success. The novelist seemed to go from unknown to MacArthur genius in two years. In truth, it took decades. This month, the novelist Viet Thanh Nguyen was awarded one of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3828,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_mo_disable_npp":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[151],"tags":[724,135,220,577,304,123,10],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nThe Secret to Viet Thanh Nguyen\u2019s Overnight Success - Viet Thanh Nguyen<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In this phone interview for Electric Lit, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen's recent success.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Viet\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"15 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success\",\"name\":\"The Secret to Viet Thanh Nguyen\u2019s Overnight Success - Viet Thanh Nguyen\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2017-10-23T07:32:53+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2018-01-17T02:01:28+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/4ea6d2af1570a892b9cede3327ad1b01\"},\"description\":\"In this phone interview for Electric Lit, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen's recent success.\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/\",\"name\":\"Viet Thanh Nguyen\",\"description\":\"Winner of the Pulitzer Prize\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/4ea6d2af1570a892b9cede3327ad1b01\",\"name\":\"Viet\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b7408bacb032bdbfa81185b3475f8818?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b7408bacb032bdbfa81185b3475f8818?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Viet\"}}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The Secret to Viet Thanh Nguyen\u2019s Overnight Success - Viet Thanh Nguyen","description":"In this phone interview for Electric Lit, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen's recent success.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Viet","Est. reading time":"15 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success","url":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success","name":"The Secret to Viet Thanh Nguyen\u2019s Overnight Success - Viet Thanh Nguyen","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#website"},"datePublished":"2017-10-23T07:32:53+00:00","dateModified":"2018-01-17T02:01:28+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/4ea6d2af1570a892b9cede3327ad1b01"},"description":"In this phone interview for Electric Lit, Joe Fassler inquires about the decades of work it took to build up to Viet Thanh Nguyen's recent success.","inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/2017\/secret-viet-thanh-nguyens-overnight-success"]}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#website","url":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/","name":"Viet Thanh Nguyen","description":"Winner of the Pulitzer Prize","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/4ea6d2af1570a892b9cede3327ad1b01","name":"Viet","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b7408bacb032bdbfa81185b3475f8818?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b7408bacb032bdbfa81185b3475f8818?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Viet"}}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/1-SyURWoGLK1aTh_I3UVw8uA.jpeg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3827"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3827"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3827\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3894,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3827\/revisions\/3894"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3828"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3827"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3827"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/vietnguyen.info\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3827"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}